Curse

Fishmonger · Jun 17, 2007, 04:59 PM // 16:59

personally, I would go Rit over warrior. I say this because of the variety. Tired of throwing spells? heal. tired of healing? go spirit's strength and melee. Tired of melee? Go spirit spammer or MM.

You will never get bored of ritualists. And in solo farming, I've found more areas are rit farmable than war farmable.

And I totally agree with how wars have a bad name. Lots of newbies play wars because of the low learning curve, while lots of noobs play war and think they are gods. Not saying rits don't have them too, but wars have legions.

Just get used to the conditionality of many rit skills

Lil_Stu07 · Jun 18, 2007, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Why not try a War/Rit build. Invest some points into channeling and you have a nice little damage spiker if you use Cyclone Axe. Or even a Der/Rit, massive AoE damage.

Div · Jun 18, 2007, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Warrior is more wanted in PvE PUG groups, but rits are more fun to play in general. Both are pretty good farmers of different things.

Lil_Stu07 · Jun 18, 2007, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Warrior is more wanted in PvE PUG groups, but rits are more fun to play in general. Both are pretty good farmers of different things.

Very true indeed

I just got Factions Sat and started my Rit, I'm already lvl 17, about to be in Kaineng. Derv's are my favorite right now tho. I might make a Der/Rit. Use the weapons with the Avatars.

Steps_Descending · Jun 20, 2007, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArKaiN

"No bias at all" my arse. If you need pressure, any mediocre W build will outperform an Rt build. Yes, even with spirit strength and awesome 60 armor.
They're used for different things. Its like asking which is better: A car or an apple.

It's ture in a rit forum no-bias sources will be very rare. But the next sentence made em smile... Is it true? Depending what you mean by "pressure" and depending if you're talking PvP-wise or Pve-wise, my calculation will be worthless.
I can't estimate the warrior DPS but I know a rit Spirit Spam one. So armed with nothign but a calculator, a sharp mind and shinigami eyes (sorry wrong universe) ; I started to do the math.

EDIT : there was a mistake, the calculations are wrong but the final dps's were corected.

With 12 commun and 8 channel and Sunspear rank 1

Skills : Painful Bond, Pain, Bloodsong, Vampirism, (attack spirits)
(Anguish + shadow song as complement (one or the other is in the build)
Boon of creation (energy management), Ritual lord (51% faster recharge)
Rez

Pain + blood song + vamp deal respectively 25 + 16 + 11 + 3x14 from painful bond

That's 94 dmg so far with 1.75 attack speed that gives 53. 714285714... ARMOR IGNORING dps for the core of the build.

If you add to this anguish (kept 100% thanks to rit lord , last 39 sec) : 34 + 14 dmg. that's 27.4285714... dps.

Or with the long part : Shadow Song. 17 + 14 dmg.
45 sec cooldown - Rit lord gives 22.5 sec + cast time : 5 sec = 27.5 sec.
It lasts 20 sec so that's a 7.5 sec window without ShadowS.
The blinding last 5 sec so it ends between 5 sec after spirit's death(if the last attack is just before death) or 1.75 sec before (if it dies just before attacking). On average, that's 0.875 sec from the best scenario.
So the blind ends 4.125 after spirit's death. Which leaves a 3.375 sec window free of condition. That means to build up adren and spike for a warrior.
So the cycle (from spawning to respawning) is 27.5 sec, with a 7.5 sec window. That means it is here72.7272727272... % of the time.

The damage is 17 + 14 every 1.75 sec. So 17.71428571428... dps 72% of the time, so 12.883116883... overall dps.

Add everything and it gives :
56.56 = basic dps, leaves you free do to something else fo a long while, cheap, needs 2 stats, heal over time from vampirism and possible batery from blood song self heal.

69.44 dps + blind on one mob (player or mob) with a 3.4 window = base + shadow song, also cheap,use the elite, same advantages but need more attention and gives an oportunity for a spike.

or
83.99 dps = base + anguish, more freedom but more energy intensive, pure damage, use the elite but can give a 9 sec without anguish to keep the elite, steady dps.

All of those are armor ignoring, but can't burst and the spirits take incontrolable target (not a problem with 1 target avaliable).

So how do the war fare in comparison?

EDIT : now that I look into it i'm an idiot! I conted Vampirism as an alegiance skill (corrected in the edit), with Sunspear it will be much highter than 1. with 6 the damage is 16 which means the basic DPS is 56.56 instead of 53.71. (edited in text, all dps's were added 2.85)

ArKaiN · Jun 21, 2007, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

So how do the war fare in comparison?

Horribly.
Warrior's DPS doesn't get decimated by a single AoE spell and they're actually mobile.
Pretty sure you don't know what pressure means.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Pressure
In a nutshell, it means constant damage.
When moving slightly out of range stops damage completely, that's not pressure. Pressure is also a pvp therm. Vampirism is right out.
Also, a Warrior needs about 2 seconds to get ready for combat. That build needs what, 30 seconds laying down spirits, while people just wail on you? Assuming no interrupts?
No.
If you want to go after what I quoted, try a dagger wielding rit with spirit's strength, not spirits. That does a ton of damage, until someone actually notices they're doing damage, and completely destroys their frail, 60-armor body with a couple of blows.

...but congrats on a ton of useless math, when a quick search on wiki could have saved you a lot of trouble.

Div · Jun 21, 2007, 01:06 PM // 13:06

You also know that it takes forever to drop your spirits and cast painful bond, and once it's casted your SF nukers have killed the enemy mob already with the help with the warrior...

Fishmonger · Jun 21, 2007, 01:14 PM // 13:14

you can't take SF into account, then you're just comparing eles and rits. basically if you are wondering dmg, ask yourself this. Which could kill faster with less deaths (kills/deaths), a party of rits or a party of wars?

Steps_Descending · Jun 25, 2007, 03:43 AM // 03:43

All I have to say about the 2 post responding to my post is : True! True! And true! then again Arkain speaks about constant damage, which is what I calculated. But notice I said that depending what exact meaning you gave to pressure my calculations were useless (which they were).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArKaiN

...but congrats on a ton of useless math, when a quick search on wiki could have saved you a lot of trouble.

Thanks! I love to do useless math!
(no sarcasm, really)

Marverick · Jun 25, 2007, 09:59 PM // 21:59

You can use Summon Spirits to bring your spirits from your last fight, as well as take them out of an AoE spell if necessary.

Spirit's Strength does more damage than a Warrior anyday. Yes they have 83 armor instead of 116/96, but that's not the point. If you prefer to tank then go ahead.

And Warriors are not wanted in PuG groups... last time I heard PuGs only want warriors to tank, not damage, thus only 1 Warrior per group. And Warriors have a terrible reputation with all the newbies and noobs playing them.

Thom Bangalter · Jun 26, 2007, 10:25 AM // 10:25

wowow. this is a real thread?

the two classes do completely different things. One has some mediocre heals and some nice melee buffs, and the other tanks/beats the shit out of things.

around · Jun 26, 2007, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Quote:

Spirit's Strength does more damage than a Warrior anyday.

I'm guessing you've never come across enchantment removal EVER before.